Episode 49: "The Wind & The Sun!" feat. Christopher Owens *PREVIEW — FULL EPISODE ON PATREON*

You are listening to the free version of Clout Farm. Swear down. Bosh. No, I'm a fan of the cartel, actually. I'm a fan. We have a Harry Potter question. Nobody's ever written something and made me go, damn, should I, you know, am I wrong? For the full episode, sub to Patriot on Geyser. Dude, I smell like shit. We went to great lengths to talk to somebody's album came out a year ago. Got you, bitch. Do you need a friend? You're just a rocker who needs love. Who told you that? I started telling everybody, like, no, I'm a neat kid. You know, like, pitchfork's like, ten. Oh, God. What can I make to show people that they're wrong about? Okay, bro. When you have the support of everybody. That's when we have the greatest things. You know, that's when we have our Michael Jackson. I wrote this on the Omnicope when I was 18. I just have no energy to be like, yo, you should be ashamed of yourself. You know, I'm just like, yo, how are you doing? Like, what's up? What's going on? You're gay? Minor sex. i mean i feel like that's been kind of like a recurring theme and i wanted to ask you about that if you had any kind of like reflections on like the fickleness of relationships like when you're quote unquote up and when people perceive you as not being at that stage like how how do you feel about that that shit is real that shit is real that shit is real and uh and i think fucked up you know really fucked up like it's real in the sense that like yeah when you're when things are going good everybody everybody's you know they're showing up at your shows they're inviting these things you know after parties at their place just they're like very they make themselves available um but the fucked up thing about about um what happens when you're like successful too is like

Not that per se. It's this other thing that happens from other people that don't even know you. Where everybody, everything is free. And like, I think that's, I get it. But like, it's only, it only becomes fucked up when you really need help. Like when things are, when like it's clear that you're the type of person who, when they get help, they don't just fucking chill. They do things with it. You're an active person. You've been touring every year. You've been making an album every year. But then something's happened and you're in the lurch. Nobody, literally nobody, is like, just come by the store and we'll give you some free jeans. It's that element of giving free things to celebrities. or bands, or people that are doing well. It all seemed, it all made sense when it was happening to us, but it just, it was, I realized how fucked up it was when, like, all you need is the slightest bit of help to not, like, because the opposite is so true, too. Like, when things are going down, it magnifies on itself. Yep. It's exponential downward tumbling. And so all you really need is a few people to maybe do a little bit to make me stop following as fast or something. And that just doesn't happen at all. I had so many people that were in my life the entirety of the whirlwind of girls, which was all just success. There was no... It was like up, up, up, up, up, and then I jumped out. But I did another three records where I worked hard and people liked them and they are what they are. I think they're great records and there's a lot of people that agree with me. I think the music press loved to sort of give me a hard time because they thought I broke up this band that loved girls. But it's really not the case.

And when you were recording the first three solo ones, you're still working with a lot of the people that you were recording the girls' atmosphere. That's another thing that I thought people would notice. I didn't just become something like, oh, this is all mine. Get away from me, everybody. It was literally all the same people or the new people that let... Okay, so at the end of Father, Son, Holy Ghost, if girls would have stayed together... The entire live band would have been fired. But, you know, that was the core of the live, these own band, like the first solo album band. And then the second record was literally the entire Father, Son, Holy Ghost band back together, except for a couple people and one new person, like a new pedal steel player. the dad of one of the guys in phoenix like this like this like 80 year maybe even 90 year old french guy well it's amazing just look at the cover you'll see him on the really old guy the french pedal steel i met him because girls got taken on tour with by phoenix you know and he was backstage and we started talking i was like you know i want to do it i want to do like a more country sounding record but do it do his accent though Man, it's been a long time. I like that you're entertaining it. It's been like, oh, I would love to do it, but it's been like, I could just do a generic French accent, but that wouldn't be right. Works for me. It's been like, what? I did that record with him. Is that like 2013, around then? Maybe. No, maybe like 14. But like... With each of the solo records, it was like I'd put together a band, we'd record, and then we'd all go and tour together. And then we'd go our several ways and put together a new band for the next project. So it was for one, you know, for two years, for one year around making the record, he was around, he was probably around the least. So he came in to do a couple of days of recording, you know, like he wasn't.

just by nature of his age and all that. He wasn't going to be, like, hanging out every day in the studio. He just came out at the end. He was great, though. And then, yeah, and then for, like, a year during shows, he was around. So it's been a long time. You did Chrissy Baby Forever pretty much on your own, right? Yeah, so I could see very clearly where things were going with my label. So I did a record with Fat Possum, which is... all positive i love i love matt johnson he's a legend like somebody i'm truly stoked about having gone to meet and hang out with i'd like to still be his friend um you know i don't know just if you don't see people sometimes but he's around so um and but um he's a neat guy and then by the next record i was like who you know where should we what should we do we're talking to my manager where should we go what should we do and he's like well you know we were always signed to whatever us label and then in the uk it was my manager's label that did the turnstile yeah i was wondering what i was yeah i heard of it they did they did the uk stuff you know then there'd be like a japanese one right but he was like you know we'd like to just do it all you know turnstile like it was like you know uh we're going big you know like come on you know do this with us and you know who knows maybe you'll help make the label and i was like okay yeah i i i really liked my manager i considered him like one of my best friends um listened to everything he said did everything he told me to do confided in a lot um and but so he suggested that so i did it and like i could tell by by after a year like it was just the way him and his partner were like talking about things i could just tell you know a lot of complaining about money a lot of like band members not getting paid on time you know having to having to nag about it just things like that and i was like okay so i'll for the next one i'll just go in by myself with a with some you know basically jr didn't want to do it so this guy jj in san francisco was a similar option like

He was the main producer on Broken Dreams Club. He was the guy that J.R. and I worked with on Broken Dreams. So I knew him. He had that studio. I'd already done Broken Dreams Club, A New Testament. I'd already done two records. So that would be the third record. I think by now I've made four full-length albums in there. That's where I Wouldn't Run Barefoot to Your Hair got recorded too. But not with him. He wasn't around. but um yeah it was like a producer that i know where i can just kind of be like this is what i want this is what i'm trying to do with this song and they can sort of they can decipher that and you know go help me start to go about it in a realistic way which i wouldn't know how to do on my own um and yeah it was like it was a money thing and also i'd also if i'm being perfectly honest people whined about so much about the two solo records not not fans but industry people and people that had you know those are the people that that have a lot of sway you know those are the people that promoters listen to that bookers listen to those are the people that really affect your career a lot and it's all just on a whim yeah um you know they didn't like the first record because they were mad that i broke up girls the second record nobody really cared about even though that record is fucking amazing i'm so proud of that record yeah so i'm just look at the cover i'm fucking proud of it the cover is also extremely contemporary the coolest band in the world yeah and like it's i'm so proud of that right i love that record and i've i've i got so much heat from those records i've i've gone back a million times i remember it was brutal listen to them just like What is it that I did wrong? And I can't hear it. I can't hear it ever. I mean, we've talked about this fairly frequently on this podcast as well, the kind of like the semi-arbitrariness of the people who are anointed from one kind of cultural moment to the next. And when a new kind of wave ends, I feel like part of that process coming into play is that the kind of institutions that be also have to kind of...

bring sacrificial lambs to the fore to sort of like sever, to sort of like differentiate from one kind of like era to the next. And I think the timing of your kind of trajectory also like being post-girls, living solo, kind of dovetailed with that. It was also like full swing Pitchfork era. Yeah. I mean, they did a lot for you guys. I mean, obviously I came across it as like a Pitchfork kid at the time. Yeah, they did a lot. for us and then they did a lot against yeah against so i mean i i'm really interested like on like a human level as someone who's like been to the ringer as as you have on like a interpersonal level but also like on like like a career like institutional level how like kind of like passing through that yeah that inferno but coming out the other side like how does that affect the way you view life do you view people you view Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a real thing, and it's a good thing to talk about. I could say, like, I believe one thing. I believe this really fully. I believed it when I was a kid, and I didn't really understand it. It was something that I was seeing again in my life. But I believe that when you support people, and help people, like in the way that Pitchford did for girls, just the fans did for girls, everybody did, you know, in the way that everybody just loved girls and were just, they showed up for it, they supported it. That's what made it get, allowed it to be so good because support makes things better, period. I think people can just... People can fall off, though. You can support people, but then if they just start to suck, then it'll become apparent. Without the support, girls would have never, ever done half of what we did. Because of that, I believe, for example, when I would teach people guitar lessons, I wouldn't even try to teach them anything.

I would just find, I would listen and watch throughout the first thing and find out what they already did kind of well and just tell them, man, you're really good at that. And then that alone. You're really good at not playing guitar. Well, that would be unfortunate, but everybody, people tend to have like something they're good at. Yeah. You know, they can't play yet. Yeah. Like, oh, you're really good at, at strumming or you're really good at, and I just, I know I just genuinely be like, whoa, you're really good at that. Most people are good at that, you know, and just compliment them. And that alone would make them continue to play in their free time, make them feel confident, and they'd just get better. Whereas if I would sit there and be like, no, I told you to play those three chords in a row and you keep screwing up the second one, it's basically like asking for it to never happen. Maybe there's random people in there that will take that criticism and work harder and become better. But most people will just be like, I'm no good at this. I keep backing it up. I don't have a lot of experience. At a root of entry level, I just believe this. And I believe this because when I was little, when I was young, I grew up in such an authoritarian, strict environment that I knew just... you know, from a gut feeling. Any kind of discipline I ever got, I reacted with, I'm like, catch you motherfuckers, you know. Next time you're not going to catch me. Next time I'm not going to be friends with the fucker that turns me in. I'm going to be only friends right now from now on with the ones that will never fucking rat, you know. Just whatever it is, just double down, just dig in harder. This reminds me of an Aesop's fable. But like, I remember one night, my mom, so on Sunday nights, we were always, because throughout the week, we lived communally. We would always sleep as kids. We were divided into our age groups, and we'd sleep in these big rooms. Like, you know, younger children, older children, teens. And I was like an older child at this point. And on Sundays, you could, oh, sorry, Saturday nights, you could sleep with your family.

So you can have family day on Sunday together and then go back to the regular routine on Monday. You live in this big room with your age group and you do your Bible studies in there. You're disciplined by the same adults in that room. Your shepherds are in that room with you at all times. It's just sort of like a way of dividing people up into groups and having order. So my mom, being a single, very attractive, young woman was often not available on Saturday night. She wasn't thinking like, oh, family time. For one, my two older sisters were older and probably didn't really care so much about family night. So it was just like, do I want, should I go pick up Christopher and hang out with him or should I go on a date, basically? And just typically, I can remember him, you know. Five years in one commune, I think maybe I had like four or five family nights, period. Wow. But there was this one night I was sleeping in my regular room with the group of kids that never got picked up, you know, the sort of Harry Potters of the group. We can literally have a Harry Potter question. We're sleeping, thinking, you know, as usual, I'm not going to get picked up tonight. But then my mom waking me up at like midnight, you know, I woke up and my mom was there. And so I should explain, like, for the older kids, we had this big, huge, you know, big room. And we'd do like our, you know, Bible studies in there. Just everything. Our lives were basically in that room when we weren't outside having playtime or, you know, helping do chores around the house for an hour or two or doing like... full house fellowships, which are like sermons or whatever, or festivities or whatever, meals. Other than that, we were in that room, you know, so this big empty room. And then throughout the day, it was just empty, big, so that that big group of people could be in there and do things. So at night, we'd take down our mattresses from a big pile and just lay them out on the floor, you know, and...

So basically at night, it was a floor of mattresses with people sleeping on them, and then that would be picked up in the daytime. You'd have a big upstairs room. So I wake up, my mom's right there, and I know, like, I just know that she's come into this dark room, seen this floor of mattresses, and she's had to find which one was me, you know, of sleeping kids. It's not that you don't just right away know. I'm thinking that, and she's like, she's... She's like, you know, I had plans, but they fell through. Do you want to have Fanonite? Anyway, I talked to your shepherd already. Shepherd's like your leader. Right. You know, they know I can take you. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like getting up, you know. And while I'm getting up, she's like looking at me with this smile. Like, you know, I could tell she was like really happy that this worked out. And like, you know, it's all positive. It's a positive vibe. And she's like. you know, when I walked in the room, I found you right away from all the mattresses. And I looked at her and I was like, really? She's like, yeah, yours was the only bed that had all their clothes neatly folded up at the end of the bed. Just like, I know you are, you know? And that fucking comment throughout my life, I've thought of that in so many, like, defining moments. Like, that comment did more for me than any... fucking demerits or discipline or you're on silence restriction for saying but or like you know we didn't even know like bad words you know you're punished in this way uh-huh never affected me if anything affected me in the opposite way her telling me that telling me like i know you're in you fold up your i know you're a good kid i just love that moment still you know and like it did so much and i started telling everybody like no i'm a neat kid you know like yeah yeah yeah yeah it really did that would still work on me so later i remember later on in life like having a discussion with somebody about like you know positive reinforcement or or punishment and just i just and just being like no punishment doesn't work at all like you can think about the prison systems right it just doesn't work

positive reinforcement i think works you know when you when you you know like the guitar lesson or you're really good at that yeah and then watching people like you know showing up the next week like you know i'm a guitar player like yeah i'm good at this you know like yeah yeah hopefully hopefully you get better though but like it's so true and i think i think that happens with anytime you're Anytime people are like, oh, this band's awesome, or this person's great, or anything, when people get support, you get better. And you'll never have the Beatles without the fans, without all that support, without the label. People can do great things, but there's a point where everybody's going to fall off. Everybody's going to fall off. When you have the support of everybody... that's when we have the greatest things. You know, this is when we have our Michael Jacksons. It all comes just from the love and support, you know, from people wanting, and then, you know, it's on your shoulders at some point, but you can do it if you're the man, if you're Michael Jackson, if you're, you know, Ariana Grande and it's time to film the Wicked movie, you're going to do it. For the full episode, sub to Patriot on Diesel. Hey, faint niggas. They do it all for the clout. Always running their mouth. But they've never been about. I splashed niggas. In and out. In and out. Clout is killing our people. They do it for U-K-L. Clout is killing our people. They do it for U-D-N. Clout is killing our people. They move like the groupies, them. Sending shots or snap, but in real life don't use this gang. You know who likes special entertainment like that? When I would teach people guitar lessons, I wouldn't even try to teach them anything.