Episode 31: "HATE THANGS" feat. Charles Verni *FULL EP ON PATREON*

You're listening to the free version of Clout Farm for the full episode sub the Patreon geezer. What do you think I should do? Make your dreams come true. Work at the factory. Yes, you can. I'd rather be dead. Fuck the factory. Don't let your dreams be dreams. Nothing is impossible. I'm working with a subversive artist. Working for a living. He's combining trap with noise! You're not gonna stop this! I gave my life for this country. And what's it done for me, huh? He's a big joan artist. What's it done for me? What do you think happened to Matt McCann? What's it done for me? Jingle culture. Damn, that is a deep fucking cut. Fuck you! You're listening to the Bad Friend cast with your host, two insensitive jerkwads, and me, a very brave boy. Our guest today is Charles Chuck Verney. No one has noticed the cut on my finger, remarked on my new jeans, and my new haircut was insufficiently complimented for my liking. So my first question is to my co-host, the helmet. I really see you in those jeans. They're tighter than the ones that you were previously wearing.

They're giving you more of like a European metrosexual vibe. Okay. Oh, wait, that was directed at us. That's all I wanted to hear. I thought you were directing that, Chucky. What? I thought you were directing that. No, he said it's two co-hosts. Right, right, right. You were wearing them on pause. I remember thinking, like, I didn't think you could get any through yet. Inspired by Shane. This is what I mean. Shane was working on the vibe. Have you got, like, ankle socks on this stuff? This is jerk warning. You've got painted nails as well. I didn't. This isn't a table turning type situation. Wait, have you painted your nails? I didn't paint my nails. I have a cut on my finger that no one remarked on. It hurt a lot. I think I have nerve damage. From all the carpeting you've been doing. From all the carpeting. My finger's still like swollen and bloody. No, we're not talking about your various injuries and ailments, Rob. Today, this episode of Platform is about majestic ash. Yeah, you know what, dude? Let's do it. Honestly, let's do it. You don't talk about your life that much. I was talking to a friend of the pod object, Blue, last night, and she was like, he's just a mystery guy. Those are her exact words. I think you're not mysterious at all. No, you're very... He's super mysterious. He's like, you really want to maintain the cool guy. I don't, though. Yeah, I really don't. No, no, no, you didn't. You actively said to me. You do. You're like, dude, I can't ask him to accept the collab post. It burns my cool guy. It burns my cool guy attitude. That is pathetic. I honestly love begging for collab posts more than I love begging for coochie. God damn. Both invariably affect it. uh i guess my first question to our ghost to our ghost to our guest oh yeah uh do you have any like sympathy you want to give me or maybe like ask about how i got this injury how'd you do your finger oh thanks for asking so uh you're very observant so i was opening a can of uh of peeled tomatoes a few days ago because i was making it yeah um very therapeutically i was home alone And someone rang the doorbell as I was opening the can. And just at that very moment, I flinched and I sliced my finger open and there was an indescribable amount of blood, which I immediately leveraged to advance my enigmatic online persona by taking a little improvised photo shoot, which I'll show you later. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. What's that one? Thank you. Yeah, cool. Thanks, man.

Did you get any blood in your shakshuka? Quite possibly, but the problem with the shakshuka is that it's fundamentally pretty red. Yeah, tomato and all that, you know. Well, and there was another thing that you were upset that you didn't ask you about as well, which is the jeans. Which is the jeans, yeah. Do you want to ask me where I got them and for how much? Yes, where did you get them and how much, I question you. Once again, I thank you for your inquisitive mind. I got them for £10 at Rocket. Wow. Which rock did you go to? The one in Camden, probably the shittest one. Yeah. Do it. Perhaps, yeah. Yeah, I've been a minute since I've been in A&M, but yeah, perhaps the shittest one in Europe. When's the last day you went to Camden Town? I was there the other day. I saw AR Kane play at the Jazz Cafe. Oh, shit. Nice. Not good. Really? Yeah, quite bad, I thought. I think I was maybe in the kind of minority in that opinion. but um because i i really listened to the two well there was like three records wasn't there like maybe a reform one and i was listening to the first one on the day and i was like thinking about how it's like quite studio kind of thing and how they translate later and i just didn't i didn't really think it did and i was really pissed as well by the time they came on um so uh that was last i was in camden was uh a couple of weeks ago i hate the jazz cafe When you say piss... It's not a good venue. I've never been there. And, like, I got there, like, kind of early because I thought it was, like, a place you could shut out in. Like, again, like, if you go to, like, a show at Oso and you're early, it's, like, not a bad place to, like, sit, like, in a corner, have a drink. And I got in there, I was like, this is just, like, a fucking, like, nightclub or something like that. Yeah, yeah. They don't let you sit in the restaurant upstairs. Like, you can't just, like, chill up there and have a beer. Yeah. So you've got to, like, sit and eat. and then i was in there and i was like all right i'm gonna come i'm gonna i'm gonna leave i went to the good mixer and i had a i had a really good mantra pint of madri like the actually madri was like you know how like so recently i went to the fucking the devonshire and i drank the guinness there which honestly was pretty fucking good yeah like the what's the price what's the price i was with my dad my dad got me the guinness so he paid

Shout out to my fucking dad, Charles Verney Senior. Oh, dude, hell yeah. Really? Yeah, but everyone calls him Tony. Anyway, I did the Guinness of Devonshire. It was fucking excellent. And then, honestly, I think following the Guinness of Devonshire, the Madri at the Good Mixer is like... next up honestly like it was just tasting it was just tasting good like and i know it gets a lot of hate but i legit think if if they can if the branding wasn't as ugly it would honestly be kind of popping off it would yeah people would be doing like tiktoks and shit do you think i could see you rocking the madri guy hat yeah i was thinking i was saying to everyone the other day that a really good dual halloween costume is that my friend goes is the moretti man and i'd go as the as the madri man that's fantastic well actually it would probably be better inverted because of my my last name is italian so i'd be the moretti the moretti guy and he would be the madri man because he speaks spanish i'm looking at a bottle right now and it's like there's a certain kind of like of like ugly coated aesthetic that can kind of in a roundabout way he looks like he looks like he looks a shit in my opinion the magic round i'm not even talking about the game the handsomest of the game yeah i just feel like the bottle in general but it's wooden bone yeah it's in this it's in this kind of nether zone where it's not going to be like quite ugly enough to like be kind of like ironically kitsch or whatever it just it's just kind of like aesthetically indefensible yeah it's trash like you know what if it's still if madri is still with us in like a couple of years it would be like I remember years ago, Bex had various artists do bottle labels to them. I can't remember which artists did them, but I'm just going to imagine here, they would have had someone like Christian Markley, like a fucking label on a bottle of Bex. And then maybe Madri, once they've secured the market, then you can focus on their aesthetics.

But just for now, it's about getting it into those pubs and then maybe we can sort of swap the Madri Man out. It's kind of like, maybe like, who are you thinking? Like Alex Clayton? I don't know who, I think maybe, you know, maybe not like a kind of, like a mascot, maybe something in a way that like, you know, Heineken, you know, you just kind of, you know, you know the font, you know the colour. We know how Diet Coke kind of has that like bird. Who? Kate Moss. Well, she's the creative director, right? I saw a director that was by someone else, not by Kate Moss. Yeah, well, John Paul Gauthier did it at one point as well. John Paul Gauthier did it. Yeah, the JPG DC. Nice. Yeah, but more my point is, do you know what I mean? It's kind of, it's just had this woman who kind of floats in and out of being on the can. And she changes with the times. I'm a Pepsi man, so. Oh yeah, you are, yeah. The first woman I've ever seen on the actual can is Kate Moss. Don't recall ever seeing another depiction of a war, but was it still in this kind of like... That style. 80s fashion illustration kind of style. Yeah, like kind of... Like lots of kind of moon-like shapes. Yeah, yeah. Or like, the thing that comes to mind first is like, you know, have you seen that Duran Duran album, like Rio? Like the kind of cover for that is sort of like the drawing of like Kemos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, I have this question noted down. To what degree do you think Duran Duran factors into Madri consumption? And does Kate Moss feature? You've answered it. What role does Kate Moss factor into Madri consumption? So I know she's from Croydon, I believe. I imagine there's lots of pubs in Croydon that are serving Madri. It's called a tangential relation. Duran Duran. Obviously, very big band. Still touring, I believe. Might be wrong. But I imagine they've been playing a lot of venues where they're sort of maddery. Do they have a very maddery kind of fan base? I think Duran Duran is quite maddery. I think it's like Martini. Martini? I don't think they're that chic.

like but then i don't know who i bet is it she to drink a martini i think it's a bit of a kind of like old man this is kind of what i mean yeah yeah yeah it's kind of like a baby's concept of what chic is yeah absolutely what's an adult's concept of what chic is oh you're asking the right person the jeans that he's wearing oh right yeah yeah you 10 pound rocket source jeans dude i bought i bought that shirt and another shirt from rocket a couple weeks ago but i'm wearing them right now they're mine because i went to i went to twos oh did you yeah which you did all the design for i was uh yeah yeah i did the website i didn't do all the design um but i i yeah um danny russo made the logo um but yeah i made the website and was helping josh like put the website together but yeah you were at twos did you get anything jesus no i was talking to this guy you knew me i didn't realize you'd done it until yesterday it's gonna be alan yeah what's twos oh you know alan the tool there we go and he was like i don't know i met him at timon claus's wedding he's like a big fashion guy there we go he's like a buyer or something like oh yeah something like that hey he was like oh like there's some really expensive stuff and then there's some not really expensive stuff and then i went in there and there's just all expensive stuff i think i'm just not a fan i think i'm just not willing i don't understand parting with 50 pounds for clothes and being like i'll see if i wear this i think it's across a bit of a threshold as well where it's like i think in the early days he had more like bits and bobs so you go in there and he just i think more so in the past he just had like like a funny like t-shirt he found something like that and i think now more so as it's become like a business of people obviously people like sell him stuff and get in touch with him he's got his various ways of like like sourcing clothes and so i think that's why like more the rail is like helmet lang like coats and shit like this whereas before it was a bit more like this is just like a weird like jumper yeah you know they had these really nice like i don't know some japanese designer suit yeah and i was like and that was like 350 pounds something like that i was like well maybe for a suit that isn't so bad yeah and you get the like japanese mobster fit yeah yeah like that i can see why you do it

But I can't spend £50 on a t-shirt, man. I'm going to hang myself before I do that. Do you think... Wait, no, don't say that, because by the time we make platform merch, t-shirts might cost £50. You think inflation is going to get that bad? You might link up the twos to do them. I think the price point that we can justify will just legitimately be £50. In addition, perhaps... Wait, how much were the MKTs? Uh, I don't remember, but the margins were, I think it was like 30 euros or something. The margins were like basically non-existent. Yeah. I was making like dick all the money. Yeah. Um, but that's because you did the made to order, right? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even own all of them. Um, I, do you think, what are the, what's the likeness that I will receive the shirt I got of Voldy? What? Voldy was like selling t-shirts like through DMs on Instagram. Oh yeah. You'll get that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, it's a plain shot. It says 2007 in Helvetica. Yeah. And it costs £49, so it's all good. £49? I'm just talking for a second. wait for real it's 20 pounds i guess yeah oh yeah it was like 20 pounds to seven feet right yeah yeah so yeah yeah which is kind of sort of a roundabout reference to the to the year 2007 oh the t-shirts boom yeah should we introduce the the ghost wait was he born in 2007 yeah yeah joe joe has i'm sorry i'm sorry right okay yeah all right cool yeah but my brother's his dj hence him all right yeah all right all right so uh we have on the podcast today the artist charles verney hello um his latest album i'm crazy combines elements of noise trap rap maybe a little bit of metal in there kind of makes sounds like i'm describing like suicide boys or something but it's it sounds like that Yeah, I would disagree that it sounds like Suicide Boys. Actually, I have listened to Suicide Boys on a couple of occasions. It's not good, man. It's not good. I would disagree with that. But, but, but, but, I did see today that Drake shouted out Suicide Boys, I think. So he basically shouted out Charles Wendt. For real. It's kind of by proxy. It means that if he'd have come to the gig I played for your guys' event, he would have been like.

He would have fucked with it. Yeah, he would have fucked with it, basically, yeah. Yeah, the most mind-blowing part of Drake being there would be him fucking with Charles Rooney. Yeah, absolutely. Dude, Drake was there, and he fucked with Charles! Honestly, a fellow Scorpio, so, you know. Is that Vice? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Bro, he does like the little insignia. You don't know your six god, yeah. No, yeah, I'm a fake Dresista. Yeah, yeah. Wait, so do you want to, like, tell us, do you want to, like, for the, because, I mean, not to, like, you know bust all up in your face and mouth and stuff too hard but sure i think you're one of the most uh interesting artists worthwhile artists currently operating thank you very much you know not to like dump loads of cum do you need a towel charles oh my god yeah absolutely yeah glass of water please not to rope all in your belly button and have a kid or two yeah uh thank you very much you're welcome um there was was there a question yeah do you want to like like introduce yourself yeah talk about why you're so fucking sick all right um yeah i make yeah i'm crazy's last album um was yeah a metal album obviously elements of other other bits in it make lots of music some a bit more kind of pop um many more when i can produce other people and then um for myself a bit more kind of um sort of stranger with it like for instance the first time i think i've already spoke to which was like the album that had like earth on it um and then um yeah i guess that was last thing i did so i'm i'm kind of like still in metal mode still thinking about metal a lot still thinking about suicide boys uh draping at the joys tavern I still think about playing at George Tavern. Still thinking about, still haunted by that wonderful evening in Whitechapel. And yeah, no, I don't have any particular mission statement. So I guess we can kind of, let me go. What's your North Star creatively? My North Star creatively, I am trying, so one thing is I'm trying to amuse myself. And I don't mean that like I'm trying to make myself laugh.

But, um, but I do find myself laughing sometimes when I'm in the studio. So like, um, there are points where I'm like, this is kind of funny, but I don't think what I make is a joke. So it's, so it's, I, one of the things people have told, like, told me the things I made are like kind of funny. I'm like, it's funny, but it's not a joke. Um, and then one other kind of thing I think about a lot is, um, quite interesting on like um what it means when um when we talk about extreme kind of culture so like i've listened to lots of like noise music like power electronics what sorts of like um quite extreme like like films like things like there's stuff like the kind of art house kind of like haneke was like extreme films saw two saw two i know absolutely i saw or films that are like yeah films that have less like i guess kind of like like bfi kind of clout like august underground or like guinea pig series or like yeah just like i don't know fucking horror films like house of wax um oh damn that's the paris holden fucking excellent b movie perfect b movie perfect b okay um i guess one thing i've always thought about is that um i try to make like a kind of like a sort of boring version of extreme things like so you know like like so the i'm crazy like it's kind of plays with metal and that was like obviously very serious and um i was like what if you know you did something that like took yourself as seriously like black metal but instead of being about like sort of pain it was just about like just like like coke or like or like party or something just like stupid like just stupid shit um we're here with Charlie ACX yeah yeah absolutely absolutely yeah yeah yeah yeah or like um I was listening the other day to an album by his band called Consumer Electronics and this guy he's he's so angry and I was like why why is he so why is he so fucking angry um and I think there's an element where yeah trying to like invert some of these really extreme things so they're about kind of like quite mundane and stupid kind of things

that's maybe a kind of creative north star if if i have if i have something it's thinking about um yeah what is what is it what is extreme or or like what is like something that's like difficult to listen to which is not me like doing a kind of like mersbo type of set yeah right like i'm not gonna don't want to be stood at a table with lots of like little electric electric boxes god forbid being like But instead, like, yeah, kind of go a bit further than that. You're listening to the free version of CloudFarm. Cherry ice cream, smile, I suppose it's very nice. With a sexy lesson, blink to the right, you catch that mirror way out west. You know you're something special and you look like you're the best. You're listening to the free version of Clout Farm. For the full episode, sub the Patreon, geezer. You said a lot that's, like, really worthwhile. And it's, like, I need to, like, I really need to, like, retain it. Okay. Such as to get to it. Because this, this pocket salt is ultimately about unpacking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have to unpack. Yeah, we're moving in. I think metal is one of those, it's like, it's like, you ever, I mean, everyone knows people who are, like, intrinsically, like, extremely funny. But due to some, some cursed. you know stroke of neurology are incapable of recognizing why they're funny yeah it's like unintentionally extremely funny but and the kind of like tragedy of their being is that they'll just never ever be able to like tap into it deliberately sure and that's like that's like kind of what i think about metal as like yeah as like like i was and this has come up like several times in the podcast like i loved metal still have a lot of love for metal i was like a big yeah like as a teenager but there's there's

the vast majority of like self-defined like metal bands are not good at embracing the humorous aspect of what they do like yeah to um to the vast majority of like metalheads like the extent of like the they can only they can't get past so like really basic juxtaposition so when they're trying to be funny like it'll always come down to i'm a metalhead with a big ass beard and fucking i'm wearing chain mail and a bullet belt but i'm holding a cat yeah yeah yeah you know what i mean so like to me it always like it like where it becomes interesting is when you have someone who's not necessarily like molded in that world who kind of embraces elements of it and like reconstitutes it yeah because a lot of metalheads are very normal people i remember like like um at school i know those are people that were into like metal and like screamer or whatever and they're just like very fucking down the line people like very like very happy family like very kind of just normal ass existence they just they're normies out there but like and i think maybe yeah that's why it's kind of funny is why they're so serious is because they are like unaware of it they can't approach it and i i do think that there is like a kind of again with the kind of embrace the metal is is kind of yeah like you said like sort of playing on on on the fact that they don't kind of realize how ridiculous it all is so the title like for instance like the title i'm crazy funny title so one of her albums is scum by napalm death and i was like if you asked like a child you were like what do you think would be like it's obvious like and like the the name for like the heaviest album ever like the the craziest like scariest like most intense like metal album ever what do you think i thought that that child would say i'm crazy it's a dude it's a yeah it is it is a fucking sick title thank you um but like yeah it was like a little more busting your belly i was like yeah it's like i can't let me like a kind of a stupid response to um like a title like reek of putrefaction which is again like a kind of stupid title and i guess also like in terms of metal like

i remember like being a kid and seeing like eddie from i made and i was like i was like that is fucking crazy i was like i was like he's like what i was like what even fucking is he i was like he's like a fucking like bro i hate that like a monster you don't like eddie i think their cover is really so offensive to me really one of the best things about them yeah yeah yeah it always looked like absolute fucking shit to me to me at least because it was just like it's like cartoonish but not cartoonish not to be funny it's like yeah kind of scary but not like not like actually like everything about it just kind of like falls flat it's it's it occupies this kind of like middle round it doesn't like strike i don't know i feel like i've been like brit nostalgia um shaming you too much recently but i thought it's very the like cartoon style is very like it's kind of like viz 2080 yeah yeah judge judge dread yeah exactly yeah um Okay, that's an interesting angle on it. I had a conversation with a friend recently about the term heavy metal. I've been talking about hard rock. We were like, what is hard rock? And it's like, I guess it's like ACDC, like Led Zeppelin, bands like this. And then heavy metal still refers to Iron Maiden, Judas Priest. And we were like, something like, yeah, Nathaniel Death is a lot heavier. So it should retroactively... it should should it be shifted along so that like napalm there for like heavy metal and like iron maiden becomes hard rock where does black sap the things all that that's like the that's like a good question that's like kind of the missing link or whatever it's not even missing it's just like the established yeah i think also like they feel a bit less like i think because also you know what to go back to what you said earlier about like yeah metal guy like his idea of like a funny thing is like oh like i've got a beard and but i i look scary but actually like i've got a cat and i love my like cat um i think with sabbath is like they seem like actual fucking weirdos like yeah i love the anecdote about aussie where he says that like the first time he ever got drunk like he just pissed himself and how like uh defined his like relationship with alcohol and all substances and like they seem just like fucking like weird weird guys

he's always been a mongol i did whereas in a way that i can make a cool way yeah but i mean other bands are like so i'm like butthole surfers are like apparently were like fucking like crazy people but like i don't think the music is particularly interesting so you get things where they go they got some bangers bro they got some bangers but i think that like um i'm not like pugetism personally but i think it does go the other way where you have people who make like who are like really fucking weird and then make this kind of not particularly interesting stuff um but i sabbath i think it was because they like seemed like they were kind of weirdos and they were also quite quite heavy so he has it i get all roads in the met in the metal conversation which i i guess we're going we're going on a metal conversation route i guess leads back to sabbath i think i'm going to put them in the heavy metal bracket if if i have to do that they're like the first they're i mean this is like not uh an insightful in the slightest but like they're they're where the light is drawn they're the first band they're the first band of all time i think like kind of like what differentiates them from like their precursors or whatever is just like the slugginess like their music was a little bit more plodding than whatever their like relative contemporaries like led zap or whatever yeah a little bit of groove but yeah it's just still it's it's it's more like it's it's a little more it's more weed than alcohol it's more weed than alcohol yeah i think the agreement is like a factor i didn't think but like with um that record like um again kind of having this kind of metal thing in mind and then like um trying to make some sort of groovy metal like some of them is like there's at least one of them which is like um There's software where you can pull the stems out of... There's just ice in the drums from a song you like. Virtual DJ does that really well. Bound in Virtual DJ is something I use called Splitter.ai. It's been a way to work out how to rebuild the drums from things I like, or other elements of things. There's at least one of them, which is the drums have been pulled out of something like it by Spice. How's that go?

I'm not going to attempt to sing it. That was your most subtle attempt at that yet, David. I also genuinely don't know the song. Yeah, no, no, no. I'm not going to do that. But I put, yeah, so I had that. And I guess, yeah, maybe that leads back to the grooviness of Sabbath. So maybe, you know what? I've met various people who think I'm from Birmingham. I'm not from Birmingham. but some people have thought of a brummy accent so again maybe it's where the sabbath the sabbath alignment comes yeah maybe i got some more more spiritual more kind of sabbath on the brain yeah that i'm realizing basically what to me is always funny about metal is for all its extremists it's still for the most part like incredibly orthodox yeah like when i was like into metal like you still had this like notion of like true metal and a lot of people i think also just because like it just by definition of the type of music that it is it it just kind of like draws these people who are kind of like outcast misfits yeah freaks weirdos smell like fucking shit etc yeah so they're just like naturally there so i was like kind of anonymous in that regard but they're just like naturally they're like a little bit more like defensive about their dominion yeah um what i find weird about metal is it seems to be so like rarefied and commodified how do you mean something they've got like they've got like huge festivals and yeah well it's like there's been the same lineup for like 30 years yeah exactly that but also like there's the same way of uh dressing yourself and appearing that kind of doesn't really seem to change or evolve like a goth girl 20 years ago looks the same as a goth girl yeah and maybe that's not necessarily a bad thing yeah and you're like you're talking about how people you grew up with you really think you're goth girl looks the same now 100 yeah yeah we took it like true true go people like actively like actively formally identify as goth yeah it's all just the same um and it's really interesting because it's like all the metal kids i grew up with like have are like tatted to the hill but like you say we'll go back

not even work at bank man just just doing some break like probably like an estate like an estate agent yeah do you know i mean barrett homes development yeah and there's nothing like there's nothing wrong with that i feel like the like metal kids that you guys would have grown up with in england would have been would have been despised by like the metal status quo of the time so like at least a lot of the conversation yeah for sure it's so true yeah at least a lot of the comments at the time was just like metalcore was like anathema yeah and and that was like you know we look back on it now and like it'll be interesting to see who's the first person to do like the the metalcore retrospective on nts or whatever like in focus it is due a reassessment but at the time it was like so controversial yeah so it's like who's having a proper who in this in this uh so you dialectic yourself the dialect would be like the guys who the sort of like 90s the guys who came up with like at the gates or whatever yeah like whatever like maybe like gothenberg sort of like death metal was the most the most like innovative stuff that they were last able to like wrap their mind around yeah at the time like you had bands like um fucking like unearthed bullet for my valentine even like avenge sevenfold or whatever uh fuck there's like tons of bands who were like like uh who are escaping right now darkest hour yeah um who you know made who whose whose songwriting was whose style of music rather was like incredibly foreign to these guys yeah when you look back on it like it's still it's clear that these musicians were like indebted to the same music that the guys who were like shitting on the most vociferously um were as well uh they just made it slightly more the the palette had slightly shifted for the time okay uh all the remains like another another one of those bands okay um at uh um and we look back at it now and it like to me like it that was an incredibly fruitful productive dare i say like innovative era for metal okay yeah i'm not as like tapped into what it is i feel like it's very influential on like current non-metal music but not influential on the current metal music yeah like

like you get well this is kind of my issue with butthole surfaces it's not really an issue i guess i can probably like him a bit more than you their best songs are the most conventional songs i'll say that yeah yeah for sure but this is the thing because they had to do this kind of because by that point their like shtick had been so codified they're like art school guys like they had to sound like a lollapalooza band in order to like shoot shotguns on stage at lollapalooza yeah i mean sure i guess now the equivalent of that is like sounding like bullet for my or like pulling from bullet for my valentine and stuff but being you know having kind of like a spooky instagram yeah you know yeah yeah yeah it's it's i think i don't know i feel i feel it's kind of it's people younger younger than me even you know it's this like post post i'm sorry you're listening to the free version of cloud farm You're listening to the free version of Cloud Farm. For the full episode, sub the Patreon geezer. For the full episode, sub the Patreon geezer.